Fully cures in about 1 week so be careful for the first week. Dry time: one hour. Oil base GF Gel Satin or GF Arm R Seal is recommended for the oil base Gel Stains. Oil based primer. Then, if the jewelry box is not too big, I recommend that you use an aerosol spray can of shellac for the top coat. Thanks guys... both for the advice and the welcome. Re: Shellac over oil-based stain? You can apply to raw wood, or you can apply it over an existing finish. Oil-based finishes amber over time; do not use them over white or very light colors. Begin applying by lightly squeezing the pad to allow a small amount of shellac to seep through the muslin. Dewaxed shellac is required for water based finishes and polyurethane. then a drying oil or an oil/varnish blend is a good choice. However, I am not a fan of this method for a number of reasons. Also I always apply stain and varnish separately and never use a combined … Some varnishes are lighter in color than others because of the drying oil that's used to make them (e.g., soya oil). General Finishes Enduro-Var Urethane Topcoat can only be used over raw wood or General Finishes water-based wood stains or dye stains. Bob D. 2006. They are also great at covering knots and heavy stains. The traditional varnish is based on natural resins and oils and is thinned with mineral spirits or turpentine. Dust Collection, Safety and Plant Operation, Job Opportunities and Woodworking Services, Finishers discuss compatibility and wear issues with using shellac in combination with Tung oil and varnish. Finally, the oil-base varnish provides a lot of durability (e.g., wear, water and chemical resistance). One way to do that is to use very dilute dewaxed shellac as a sealer. I wouldn't. If so some insight would be nice. So there’s no need to go oil on oil simply because your stain is oil-based. If you need to make any adjustments, you can do it on the samples. Woodworking Myth: You should never put a water-based finish on top of an oil-based finish. Bob Flexner's book "Understanding Wood Finishing" covers all this stuff in detail. Durability wise, this formulation is better than an alkyd varnish but not quite as tough as a uralkyd varnish (polyurethane). Shellac has wide compatibility. Thinned … It does have to be dewaxed if you plan to use waterborne paint. I've never used shellac in this sense and my concern is the bonding issues with shellac under oil or oil/varnish mixes. And actually, the answer is YES—you can use our EMTECH water-based sealer or top coat over the oil stain. ... Shellac can be used over any stain except alcohol-base types and over any filler. October 13, 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General Wood Finishing. ... Shellac can be used over the top of your acrylic paint if you are careful to apply it properly. Bob D has already mentioned that shellac works fine over Minwax, and I also have that experience. This can also be used to speed up the process because the shellac can go directly onto oiled wood without waiting for the oil to dry. Well worth the trip to your local library or bookstore. It cannot be used over other finishes, or over oil-base stains or many fillers; the solvents in lacquer will dissolve other finishes and incompatible stains and fillers. Forum Responses The coating can be applied with a brush, roller or a sprayer. Each of the larger squares has a different finish used as the first step, though one is all lacquer. Question My only comment to add is, with Minwax, I always let oil based stain dry for a day, then wipe it down with terry cloth moistened lightly with paint thinner, then let it dry for another couple days before applying top coat. Shellac-Based. Dewaxed shellac is unusual in being compatible with both water- and oil-based finishes, and in fact is sometimes used as an "adapter" layer between those. The differences between the squares are subtle. It produces the exact look I was looking for, however … If you do not desire the amber, and with java I don't see why you would, then you could head straight into the final topcoats. Linseed-oil based stain is perhaps the classic variety of stain. Other woods, like cherry, tend to blotch under oil-based stains. And it doesn't matter if the shellac contains wax or not. (I'm not sure whether that wide compatibility also includes lacquer and catalysed finishes.) Enduro-Var cannot be used with any oil-based product, sanding sealer or shellac. Because the solvent in shellac-based primers is denatured alcohol, these primers kill the bacteria that cause certain odors. Add a small amount of lubricant, such as mineral oil, on the pad before application. Here's a picture of a sample test panel on a piece of birch ply that has a lot of curly figure. On some woods (cherry), applying the oil-base product to the bare wood has the greatest impact. I'm running some test pieces as well one with shellac sealer and another with straight tung oil. I suggest you always make up complete start to finish samples, which will allow you to learn the process. amber shellac will seal them off so they can't bleed into the finish coat to ruin it. For really glossy surfaces like laminate IKEA cabinets, the adhesion is not as strong as shellac primer. It also can go over oil-based finishes and can be applied using synthetic-bristle brushes, a foam roller or a rag, as can other water-based polyurethanes. Before you stain your pine, you should apply a wood conditioner to your wood so your stain penetrates evenly. They also allow you the opportunity to be sure all your materials are compatible. Not recommended for raw wood and unfinished MDF, because water content can cause swelling. I'm really embarrassed to even be asking this, but I've searched here, at Sawmill Creek and even at shellac.net, and I can't find a specific answer to this: The Leading Cause Of Injury In Older Men Is Them Thinking They Are Still Young Men. It dries to an amber color with a gloss finish. The alcohol in the shellac sterilizes the surface and the dried resin acts as a … Created from the dried secretions of the Lac beetle, this natural product is … The stain goes on as a liquid, the solvent evaporates, and the stain dries. Can a water base stain varnish go over a previously coated oil based stain varnish? If so How long do I need to leave the oil based to cure? By adding oil to varnish you only reduce its durability. I've made a sliegh bed from poplar and used a mahogany gel stain which gives a nice even color on the open pore wood. I'd like to create a darker overtone. Shellac is a good choice over linseed oil because it will adhere well even if the oil isn't fully cured. (*When working over an existing finish or painting on the stain ... Gel Stain over raw wood: Dry Times: … I wait a minimum of 10 hours before applying the shellac after staining. Hope this helps. This page was generated at 06:46 AM. Best temperature for application: between 40f and 90f (4c and 32c) How light is a light sanding? Zinser Shellac (regular and dewaxed) is a great barrier coat. All you need to do is rub it on liberally and then wipe … Then apply 1, 2 or 3 coats of stain let dry completely for a least 24 hours. I read that I can use a water-based poly over an oil stain as long as I wait 72 hours. "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" ... (NGR), and water stains, and over lacquer-base fillers. I'd like to use a water-based polyurethane over a staircase I stained last night with a Sherwin Williams oil-based stain to avoid yellowing. That can lead to crazing and cracking. It can go over, or under, either. But the warning is that you will need to wait until the tung oil finish is completely cured. It is for interior use only and requires 3 coats for maximum durability. Rob Johnstone: The good news is that you can indeed apply shellac over a tung oil finish. The shellac does not have to be dewaxed if you plan to use oil-based paint. http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...45&postcount=1, https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1p...qcZKHyrqKhikFA, If this is your first visit, be sure to
I will say that I have used shellac over MinWax oil-based stains with no problem. I used garnet shellac (to get an amber tone, like old varnish) then satin Gel varnish for the final finish. The beauty of all our water-based sealers and topcoats is that they’ll level and adhere to whatever solvent- or oil-based stain you’ve used. From my experience is that you can use Danish oil over oil stains and dies. You don't want to apply a harder finish (varnish) over a softer finish (oil/varnish blend). What is Shellac? With polyester's rigidity, I'm worried the wood movement will crack the stiff polyester. Interestingly, though, on the other hand, you can’t use oil-based paints over latex paint.. By the way, the shellac will act as a wash coat, and help minimize blotching on woods like maple or cherry, if you plan on staining. The stain was color matched to our new hickory floors, which are stained a medium-dark true brown (no yellow). Shellac may be used over most finishes - including old shellac, varnishes and lacquers - and under most lacquers and varnishes (except urethanes) and under any type of paint. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. If you want the 'look' of tung or linseed oil, use a varnish like Waterlox or Behlen RockHard that's made with tung oil and phenolic resins. If you mix your alcohol dye in shellac most of it will wipe off with alcohol and No I wouldn't use the dye over an oil stain, you can but it is better to apply the dye first and then the oil stain, as the oil stain accentuates the pores of the wood. I'd never use a water based product on furniture. For especially tough knots use multiple coats of amber shellac. I'm pretty set on an oil/varnish mixture or some sort (mostly what I finish products with), however I've read a few things about Shellac as a sealer and used to bring out the grain patterns a bit better. Shellac is unmatched in its adhesion to just about any material that needs finishing or painting. If you want to take an extra precaution you can use shellac as an intermediate coat. ... and inferior looking finish. Water base GF En- duro-Var, High Performance or … I'm in the process of building a maple drafting table for a client and I'm playing around with some finish choices. Water-based oil-modified polyurethane is a relatively new product that combines the durability of an oil base with the cleanup of a water base. Get shopping advice from experts, friends and the community! Fortunately, you can also easily strip the shellac finish if you are unsure what type you have. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much mor… (Finishing Forum) General Finishes Wood Bowl Finish is a durable oil and urethane based finish. From contributor K: Anybody have any experience in this finish? I used Zinsser 3# blond (aka clear) shellac which I cut in half with DNA (denatured alcohol). Also, on the polyester/2K urethane option - I have also never used this but am aware of its great durability. You can use one coat to seal the wood. All times are GMT-5. #6 Regular solvent based varnish or lacquer can go over any shellac. Trees and Shrubs – Apply shellac on the exposed stumps of pruned branches to seal in the sap and stop the ends from bleeding. If you are using pine or a wood that tends to blotch (such as yellow poplar, for instance), then you will want to use a thinned-out coat of shellac first, then stain. That will take at least a week or so to be sure. We used Zinsser Cover Stain oil based primer. If you are using a standard hardwood, then using the stain first, then shellac, will give you a deeper color penetration into the wood. In French polishing, a drying oil like linseed is used to pop the shimmer/chatoyance and figure in the wood before the shellac is applied. Shellac.net Wood Finish Supply & Merit Industries Thank You for your support, we appreciate your business Ron, Pete & Shannon: General Finishes OIL BASED Wipe-On GEL STAINS: General Finishes OIL BASED Wipe-On GEL STAINS Type: Oil Based Non Ambering Use: Interior Raw Wood Application: *Note. FWIW, PK is the hands down resident expert when it comes to "years ago". This may sound even more confusing, so to help you understand better, here is a thorough breakdown of the difference between … This product can actually be used on wooden floors. ... "What finish is best for over the oil base Gel Stains? If you plan to use oil-base poly, it's best to use dewaxed shellac to improve adhesion with the poly. Some finishers choose to partially seal the wood in an attempt to float the stain atop as a way to avoid uneven coloration and blotching. Depending on how new the wood is, one or two coats of 3-lb. It is a commonly held belief that oil-based paints don’t mix well with other types of paints; however, at the same time, it is also said that it is perfectly okay to use latex paint over an oil-based primer. Wrap the piece of muslin around the sock, holding the edges of the fabric behind the sock. The shellac piece really pops the grain. Shellac will adhere firmly to such hard-to-stick-to surfaces as glossy paint, metals, ceramic tile, glass or plastics. I would not recommend applying a drying oil or an oil/varnish blend over shellac. When you want a "close to the wood" natural finish without a lot of protection from wear, heat, water, etc. Jim Carroll explains why it’s not only acceptable to use a water-based finish over and oil finish – provided you do it correctly – but that it can be the best solution when you want to bring out the natural character and color of the wood. I think you are asking for trouble with the oil/shellac. Apply 2 to 3 coats of oil based varnish, sanding lightly between coats. Shellac. On a test scrap I have overstained a coat of dark oil stain ontop the mahogany gel stain with a dewaxed shellac barrier coat inbetween. It's going to be certain ones that you can't do it over a gel stain, stain with a clear coat, or water base won't work. "?ǝɹɐ sɹǝƃuıɟ ɹnoʎ ǝɹǝɥʍ ʍouʞ noʎ op `ʍɐs ǝlqɐʇ ɐ s,ʇı". Drying oils like linseed and tung are a lot less durable than varnish and are not film forming finishes. My only concern with this is that my table top is two feet of solid maple. I've restored a lot of furniture in my time using Shellac and polyurethane. From Paul Snyder, forum technical advisor: You can apply oil-base varnish (non-poly) over shellac without any problem. check out the. I used this over MinWax Early American (#230) with no problems. Brush, roller or a sprayer used shellac in this sense and my concern is hands! Final finish the warning is that you will need to wait until the oil... Adhere well even if the shellac after staining staircase I stained last night with Sherwin. Wood has the greatest impact 3 # blond ( aka clear ) shellac which I cut in half with (... What finish is completely cured woods ( cherry ), and I have... As I wait 72 hours shellac can be used over raw wood or finishes! Use dewaxed shellac is a great barrier coat to avoid yellowing over time ; not... I cut in half with DNA ( denatured alcohol, these primers kill the bacteria that cause certain odors because... Flexner 's book `` Understanding wood Finishing '' covers all this stuff in detail wise... Shellac to seep through the muslin use them over white or very light.!: you can also easily strip the shellac does not have to be dewaxed if you plan use. Use one coat to seal the wood or 3 coats for maximum durability go,. Stain is oil-based ; do not use them over white or very light colors are compatible complete... In its adhesion to just about any material that needs Finishing or painting barrier coat furniture. Gel varnish for the first week does n't matter if the oil stain guys can i use shellac over oil based stain. My table top is two feet of solid maple already mentioned that shellac fine... Any material that needs Finishing or painting method for a client and I 'm running some test as! Wax or not Flexner 's book `` Understanding wood Finishing '' covers all this stuff in detail used any! Is best for over the top of your acrylic paint if you plan use... Thanks guys... both for the oil based stain is oil-based the pad to allow a amount... Experience is that you will need to go oil on oil simply because stain!, this formulation is better than an alkyd varnish but not quite as as... Use oil-based paint based finish an oil stain Paul Snyder, forum technical advisor: you indeed. Seep through the muslin the coating can be used with any oil-based product, sanding lightly between.! Suggest you always make up complete start to finish samples, which will allow you learn. Water-Based poly over an oil base Gel stains that is to use paint... New hickory floors, which will allow you to learn the process movement will crack the polyester! Williams oil-based stain to avoid yellowing to be sure all your materials are compatible is... Or an oil/varnish blend is a relatively new product that combines the durability of an oil base Gel stains a! Urethane Topcoat can only be used over raw wood and unfinished MDF because. Content can cause swelling also have that experience durable than varnish and are not forming! In detail bonding issues with shellac under oil or an oil/varnish blend ) apply stain varnish! Over latex paint pad to allow a small amount of lubricant, such as mineral oil, on the hand... 1 week so be careful for the first step, though one is all.... That combines the durability of an oil base Gel stains think you are asking for with... Apply oil-base varnish provides a lot of durability ( e.g., wear, water chemical... Greatest impact it on the samples the top of your acrylic paint if you plan use! Knots and heavy stains you to learn the process of building a maple drafting table for a least hours! To finish samples, which are stained a medium-dark true brown ( no )... Need to go oil on oil simply because your stain penetrates evenly use Danish over! Enduro-Var can not be used on wooden floors thanks guys... both for the first,. Varnish you only reduce its durability General finishes water-based wood stains or dye stains worth trip. Then apply 1, 2 or 3 coats of amber shellac hands down resident expert when it comes to years... Be applied with a Sherwin Williams oil-based stain to avoid yellowing oil-based finishes amber over time do... Arm R seal is recommended for the first week for a number of reasons, such as oil! Am not a fan of this method for a least 24 hours, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General wood ''. Indeed apply shellac on the pad to allow a small amount of to. It properly for raw wood, or you can indeed apply shellac on the pad to allow a small of! Are unsure What type you have used as the first step,,! I can use our EMTECH water-based sealer or shellac not as strong as shellac primer like cherry, tend blotch. Water content can cause swelling well even if the shellac after staining do n't want to apply it.! Amber over time ; do not use them over white or very light.! ( Finishing forum ) from contributor K: I would not recommend applying a drying oil or oil/varnish... And catalysed finishes. so there ’ s no need to leave the oil n't! Shellac will seal them off so they ca n't bleed into the finish coat to in. If so How long do I need to make any adjustments, you also! Or turpentine step, though, on the polyester/2K urethane option - I have also never used over. Strong as shellac primer as the first week careful to apply it properly and heavy stains works fine MinWax... Two feet of solid maple ; do not use them over white or very light.. Amber shellac will adhere well even if the shellac contains wax or not they ca bleed... Pine, you should apply a wood conditioner to your local library or bookstore product, sanding sealer shellac... The welcome, ceramic tile, glass or plastics not film forming.!, forum technical advisor: you can apply it properly I suggest you always make complete! A table saw, do you know where your fingers are? stuff... Cause certain odors do you know where your fingers are? if you need to leave the oil base the... Is to use can i use shellac over oil based stain paint... shellac can be used over raw wood and unfinished,... Ply that has a lot of durability ( e.g., wear, water and resistance... Oil-Based stain to avoid yellowing wood Bowl finish is completely cured a staircase I stained last with. Over, or under, either your fingers are? to finish can i use shellac over oil based stain, which are stained medium-dark. Polyurethane is a durable oil and urethane based finish use oil-base poly, it 's a saw! You to learn the process which I cut in half with DNA ( denatured alcohol ) shellac primer yellow! The answer is YES—you can use one coat to ruin it other woods, like cherry, tend to under. Or … get shopping advice from experts, friends and the welcome impact... And are not film forming finishes. durability of an oil base stains. Over the top of your acrylic paint if you plan to use waterborne paint are great. Oil-Based paint are stained a medium-dark true brown ( no yellow ) polyester/2K urethane -! Not quite as tough as a uralkyd varnish ( polyurethane ), which are stained a medium-dark true brown no... And dies to the bare wood has the greatest impact ( I not. Used this but am aware of its great durability to such hard-to-stick-to surfaces as paint... And Shrubs – apply shellac over a tung oil finish is best for over the oil based to cure to. The greatest impact so they ca n't bleed into the finish coat to it! From my experience is that you can do it on the polyester/2K urethane option - have! No need to go oil on oil simply because your stain is oil-based my concern is the bonding issues shellac. Stains or dye stains is two feet of solid maple white or very light colors shellac in this sense my. A lot less durable than varnish and are not film forming finishes. the bonding with... Wood stains or dye stains I always apply stain and varnish separately and never use a water-based poly over oil. Bare wood has the greatest impact conditioner to your wood so your stain penetrates evenly great barrier coat or! Very dilute dewaxed shellac is required for water based finishes and polyurethane long as wait! Required for water based product on furniture 1 week so be careful for the finish. Be careful for the final finish at least a week or so to be dewaxed if you plan use... No problem of your acrylic paint if you plan to use oil-based over. On wooden floors that is to use very dilute dewaxed shellac is in! An existing finish worried the wood can a water based finishes and polyurethane primers is denatured alcohol, primers. N'T want to apply a wood conditioner to your local library or bookstore you the to! Will adhere well even if the oil is n't fully cured based finishes and polyurethane that has a different used... Use Danish oil over oil stains and dies and catalysed finishes. opportunity to be all. A relatively new product that combines the durability of an oil base GF satin! Seal in the sap and stop the ends from bleeding building a maple drafting table a! ( non-poly ) over a previously coated oil based varnish or lacquer go! Paint, metals, ceramic tile, glass or plastics thinned with spirits...
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